Beautiful Feet by The Muffin Man
Well here is some alternative footwear to go with my cassock. These are my Pentecost boots……
Filed under: Alt. Worship/ Emerging Church, Alternative Hymnal, Alternative Worship, Christianity, Church, Church of England, CofE, Emerging Church, Faith, Fresh Expressions, Funny, Photography, Religion |
Changing Worship 
That is just fab-u-lous, to quote the ever slimy Craig Revel Horwood!! Thank you (altho I feel slightly weird enjoying it so much 😉 )
I read the Mixed Economy booklet, its great stuff. I’m really drawn to the Pioneer route – have you seen the DVD for it? A camping ministry – yes please!
Pioneer ministry – as in ordination in the CofE? This was just coming out when I went through selection. I am in two minds about it. There is something about it that almost excuses others from not engaging. “Pioneer ministry is happening over there so we don’t need to bother”. Each end every member of clergy needs to be engaging with fresh expressions not just the very small numbers of pioneer ministers. Pioneer ministry seems (from my experience) to take place in the city centre and then leave the rest of the world out of the loop.
Where did you get the DVD? Was it the fresh expressions site?
yes. I did get the DVD off the website, it costs £6 or something.
I agree with what you say, but its a huge church with a slow rate of change, and its sometimes helpful to have other possibilities modelled and developed, as that shifts the centrepoint of thought for the majority in the middle, acts as a catalyst etc.
There are lots of people who find the trad church hard to access – I guess if I’m honest I find it hard myself, so its good to offer diversity to reflect the diversity of people. Changing the method but not the message.
What is your experience, is there much of it going on where you are?
Wow – that’s a big question!
Just to clarify, I don’t always agree with Peter Rollins but he said something very profound.
St Francis had something massive to tell the whole church. It was scary and wanted to change the new world order. The church would have to change the way it operated and it would radically affect the way in which the church structures and hierarchy were run. The church knew that what he said was true so they resisted schism and instead welcomed his teaching in and tamed it. They made it part of the officially recognised structures. Franciscans were born and they were allowed to happen…. over there somewhere…. where we don’t have to do it…. and we don’t have to join them…. and they don’t have to affect us. By making the Franciscans part of the officially recognised structures they managed to marginalise them and tame them. Their teeth were removed.
Now this is where Peter Rollins and I disagree. Peter Rollins reaction to this is to say that the emerging church needs to be as far away from the ‘institutional church’ as possible. This is the way in which it will keep it’s teeth and change the church. [He actually went further at Greenbelt and offended 99% of the people in the seminar including the panel by saying that the “emerging church would kill off the ‘institutional church’ and that would be a good thing”] I disagree with his application of what he says. He is suggesting that Franciscans should have schismed from the church. I would suggest that Franciscans would be better to have a real effect upon the whole church. Instead of creating pioneer ministry we need to be making the church pioneering.
I know too many churches, church members and clergy who now use fresh expressions as an excuse to carry on as if nothing changes.
Speaking as an Anglican, we need all clergy and all parishes to be trained in emergence and pioneer ministry so that it can become an inherent part of the church at large.
And that is why I didn’t join the first generation of pioneer ministerial training. That is why I am going into parish.
Thats really interesting, and helpful. Thanks. I hadn’t heard of Peter Rollins, will have to read that up.
I guess I am a pragmatist. I think the churches, members and clergy you speak of who use f/e as an excuse to carry on as if nothing changes, are those for whom nothing does change. Ad infinitum. Do we spend energy wrangling with them, trying to get everyone to make some change and inch forward, or do those of us who can actually get on and make change, therefore showing that its possible/ its not that tough/ it has great benefits etc.
It seems that the archbishops have set it up as one of the means of change. That doesn’t mean other ways will not happen too but people can’t be forced to change if they don’t want to, regardless of the good reasons for it.
I suppose I’m in a strange situation (feels that way) in that I was in a Baptist church and running a prayer room for people who didn’t know God etc, when I was called in a bizarre way to go to the Anglican church and train for the ministry. So, I’m here, exploring to try and understand what its about. Mostly the whole thing is totally alien and very scary, and the Pioneer looks the only route I could hope to take, given my background and experience.
Sorry to bang on – its so good to hear from someone who is really doing it. Thanks for the insight, Kim
The problem is that if we don’t model good practice there is no reason for them to change – ad infinitum. It isn’t a question of wrangling, it is about demonstrating that Jesus is interested in more than ‘the old ways’, He is interested in the underlying theology that defines our way of life through our discipleship.
That doesn’t mean that there is a problem with ‘traditional church’. ‘Traditional church’ has passed the faith through the centuries to us. ‘Traditional church’ is used by God to speak to billions of people worldwide and He transforms communities and lives and countries through it. There are people for whom the ‘traditional church’ doesn’t speak. In this country, this portion is growing rapidly. That is why the Arch Bishop’s assertion of the ‘mixed economy church’ is so vital. I am much happier with his philosophy than Pete Rollins. In the Arch Bishop’s world view everyone is valued. When we think that the “emerging church will kill the ‘institutional church’ and that is a good thing” it doesn’t just devalue the 2000 years of people faithfully passing on their faith from generation to generation but also the faithful people who worship week in and week out.
Interesting that you were at a Baptist church and now and Anglican… snap 😀
Don’t worry about banging on. It’s what I hoped for when I started blogging.
I agree with you entirely – the point is about increasing diversity, surely. If the trad church was killed off, there still wouldn’t be any more options would there?! And where would all the people go for whom the existing church has been ‘home’ and a place of value? AND its a demonstration of our care for one another as family, that we can allow difference to co-exist and dialogue.
How fascinating that you were at a Baptist church too. It has been quite a difficult process to disentangle. I am utterly clueless about Anglicanism really and the church I’ve joined is a charismatic evangelical CofE so I won’t learn it much there either. I’m looking at the Pioneer because really my calling is ‘outside’ .
Cheers for the help, is a huge relief to talk! All my friends from my old church think I’ve gone a bit mad, but what can you do? Got to follow.
hmm, just looked at Pete Rollins’ website. Lots of long and clever words on there. Brian McLaren is heavily recommending one of his books. Looks like something to look into more fully, sometime. Thanks for the heads up.
To be honest, I disageed with more of what he said than I agreed with…